VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

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VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:29 pm

Two motorcycle-related bills have been introduced in the Virginia House of Delegates and have been assigned bill numbers.

HB 97 would amend the Code of Virginia to allow two motorcycles to ride abreast in a single lane.
HB 187 would amend the Code of Virginia to prohibit the establishment of motorcycle-only checkpoints.

More on Tom McGrath's Motorcycle Law Group facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tom-McGr ... 5015015127
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:41 am

dcgsrider wrote:HB 97 would amend the Code of Virginia to allow two motorcycles to ride abreast in a single lane.

Probably about time they changed this law, since the police (at least in Fairfax) don't abide by it anyway.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:43 am

T.Wesley wrote:
dcgsrider wrote:HB 97 would amend the Code of Virginia to allow two motorcycles to ride abreast in a single lane.

Probably about time they changed this law, since the police (at least in Fairfax) don't abide by it anyway.


Right now riding two abreast is a "reckless driving" offense--carrying a potential license suspension and hefty fine. According to VCOM, only Virginia and Vermont have such prohibitions on the books.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:29 pm

dcgsrider wrote:Right now riding two abreast is a "reckless driving" offense--carrying a potential license suspension and hefty fine. According to VCOM, only Virginia and Vermont have such prohibitions on the books.

I know, which is why it boggles me that the Fairfax motorcycle police constantly ride like this.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:07 pm

T.Wesley wrote:
dcgsrider wrote:Right now riding two abreast is a "reckless driving" offense--carrying a potential license suspension and hefty fine. According to VCOM, only Virginia and Vermont have such prohibitions on the books.

I know, which is why it boggles me that the Fairfax motorcycle police constantly ride like this.

Ditto the Arlington PD motors. It's the thin end of the wedge. One of the reasons lane-splitting is legal in Calif. (or more precisely not illegal) is that the cops want to split between the cages.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby JSWillis » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:10 pm

§ 46.2-857. Driving two abreast in a single lane.

A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives any motor vehicle, including any motorcycle, so as to be abreast of another vehicle in a lane designed for one vehicle, or drives any motor vehicle, including any motorcycle, so as to travel abreast of any other vehicle traveling in a lane designed for one vehicle. However, this section shall not apply to (i) any validly authorized parade, motorcade, or motorcycle escort, or law-enforcement officers driving motorcycles while on official duty; (ii) a motor vehicle traveling in the same lane of traffic as a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, electric power-assisted bicycle, or moped; nor shall it apply to (iii) any vehicle when lawfully overtaking and passing one or more vehicles traveling in the same direction in a separate lane.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:56 pm

That just furthers my point - why is it OK for police to do (legally speaking) and not for us? I can't think of anything duty-related that police do that requires them to have the legal justification to ride 2 abreast.

FWIW I think this particular law is a bad idea, but I just abhor double standards. At least the police riders are highly trained. Imagine a 27-bike parade leaving The Chuckwagon 2 abreast... you thought it was a clusterf*** when they were staggered! 2 abreast with untrained riders it would be a clusterf*** with broken legs.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Unity » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:21 pm

T.Wesley wrote:why is it OK for police to do

A moto officer explained that it's for visual communication, so that in a quick-reaction situation, one officer can signal the other what action he's taking without having to use the radio (and words) -- speed of reaction is the thing.

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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby JSWillis » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Earlier the post was the police were not abiding by the law. The point is the law does not apply to the police in their official capacity.

As indicated - the police are highly trained. Most motorcycle riders, even those "certified" by the MSF training courses are trained, if at all, and tested to miminum standards.

This is not a scenario of "double standards." Double standards inherently implies that subjects in the same functional status are treated differently. Motor officers are arguably in a different category than the minimally trained or arguably essentially untrained riders in the civilian community.

The point is obvious - the focus on the police doing something the masses cannot do is not really accurate as the law in Virginia allows all sorts of exceptions to the 2 abreast law.


T.Wesley wrote:That just furthers my point - why is it OK for police to do (legally speaking) and not for us? I can't think of anything duty-related that police do that requires them to have the legal justification to ride 2 abreast.

FWIW I think this particular law is a bad idea, but I just abhor double standards. At least the police riders are highly trained. Imagine a 27-bike parade leaving The Chuckwagon 2 abreast... you thought it was a clusterf*** when they were staggered! 2 abreast with untrained riders it would be a clusterf*** with broken legs.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:11 pm

I didn't know about any exceptions before, hence my change in thought process.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:41 pm

You can read some more of the back story behind this legislative effort in the link below. Late last year Tom McGrath defended two motorcyclists in Crewe, Va. Both were charged with "reckless driving" for pulling away from a traffic signal side-by-side and riding two abreast for a short distance. The judge has put off the final disposition of the case pending the legislative session. One of the motorcyclists charged holds a CDL, so not only faces loss of license, but loss of livelihood as well.

http://www.abateva.org/121911vcomnews.pdf

In the Commonwealth, reckless driving can carry a maximum fine of $2500, potential license suspension and even jail time of up to a year. A reckless driving conviction carries six points that stay on your driving record for 11 years (just like a DUI.)

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citiz ... ints_6.asp

Personally, I don't recommend riding two abreast under most circumstances, but I have pulled up next to a riding buddy while waiting at a stop light, for a short conversation. If a cop had been watching, we could have been cited in Virginia. It shouldn't be a "hanging offense" unless there are extenuating circumstances like aggressive riding or speeding. It's draconian to charge someone with "reckless driving" for doing so at low speed, especially since it's apparently legal in 48 states.

I think all of the above carries more weight than "if the motor officers can do it, why can't I." Police officers can do many things in the performance of their duties than are denied to ordinary citizens, either by law or simple prudence.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:44 pm

JSWillis wrote:§ 46.2-857. Driving two abreast in a single lane.

A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives any motor vehicle, including any motorcycle, so as to be abreast of another vehicle in a lane designed for one vehicle, or drives any motor vehicle, including any motorcycle, so as to travel abreast of any other vehicle traveling in a lane designed for one vehicle.

I'm obviously no expert, but it seems to me that "traveling" isn't the same as being stopped side-by-side at a red light.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:40 pm

Two-abreast bill advances out of sub-committee.
-----------------------
Va. House bill would let motorcyclists ride side by side

By Bill Sizemore
The Virginian-Pilot
© January 18, 2012

RICHMOND

Legislation to allow motorcycles to travel two abreast in a single lane is advancing in the Virginia House of Delegates.

A House subcommittee voted 3-1 for Del. Tony Wilt’s bill, HB97, this morning.

Wilt, R-Harrisonburg, said Virginia is one of only two states that don’t allow motorcyclists to ride side by side, and he knows of no evidence that the practice has been found to be a safety hazard in the other 48.

Matt Danielson, counsel to the Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists, said allowing bikers to ride two abreast would make it easier for them to communicate with each other.

Raymond Hinkle of Keysville, Va., told the panel he and a fellow rider were ticketed and charged with reckless driving after they pulled up to a stoplight together in Crewe, a town in Nottoway County.

“I was dumbfounded,” he said.

The two are commercial truck drivers, and a reckless-driving conviction would put their livelihoods at risk, Hinkle said.

An insurance lobbyist and a spokesman for the State Police expressed safety concerns about allowing bikers to ride so close together.

“Two or three feet is such a small space,” said Lt. Danny Glick of the State Police. “Space gives you options. Putting another vehicle that close in the lane is taking away your options.”



The measure now advances to the full Transportation Committee.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby henwin » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 pm

dcgsrider wrote:Two motorcycle-related bills have been introduced in the Virginia House of Delegates and have been assigned bill numbers.
HB 97 would amend the Code of Virginia to allow two motorcycles to ride abreast in a single lane.
HB 187 would amend the Code of Virginia to prohibit the establishment of motorcycle-only checkpoints.


i find it very interesting that in the discussion (previously) there's no discussion about motorcycle check points. What's the big deal? Truckers have to go through check points. Why, and I'm just being the devil's :twisted: advocate here, shouldn't we (motorcyclists) :?:
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby biometrics » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:38 am

i find it very interesting that in the discussion (previously) there's no discussion about motorcycle check points. What's the big deal? Truckers have to go through check points. Why, and I'm just being the devil's advocate here, shouldn't we (motorcyclists)


Because Trucks are commercial vehicles subject to far more stringent state and federal safety standards than are the cages and motorcycles which are personal transportation devices. If you are going to have a personal transportation checkpoint... why would you limit it to just motorcycles or just cars?
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