VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:39 am

I'd also venture to guess that a poorly driven 18-wheeler can kill a whole lot more people than a poorly ridden motorcycle!
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:27 pm

biometrics wrote:
i find it very interesting that in the discussion (previously) there's no discussion about motorcycle check points. What's the big deal? Truckers have to go through check points. Why, and I'm just being the devil's advocate here, shouldn't we (motorcyclists)


Because Trucks are commercial vehicles subject to far more stringent state and federal safety standards than are the cages and motorcycles which are personal transportation devices. If you are going to have a personal transportation checkpoint... why would you limit it to just motorcycles or just cars?


Motor carriers are subject to a myriad of safety-related regulations, including Hours of Service laws, designed to protect the public from their rigs. It makes sense they would held to a higher level of scrutiny. Motorcyclists, not so much. The sad fact is that, most of the time, the "bad actors" on motorcycles end up hurting only themselves.

The experience of states that have used such checkpoints (link to a story about NY State below) suggests most of the violations found in these "dragnets" are for no MC operator's permit, non-DOT certified helmets and other minor, equipment-related violations. The last item seems like a duplication of effort in states like Virginia where we are already subject to an annual vehicle-safety inspection regime. The NY Staties made only four criminal arrests at the checkpoints in 2008.

http://online.wsj.com/article/APd85690f ... 86251.html
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:07 am

HB97, the riding-two-abreast bill, was passed out of the full Transportation Committee yesterday. It will receive its first reading in the House of Delegates tomorrow (1/26) and there will be a floor vote on Friday.

More here.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tom-McGr ... 5015015127
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby streetdoc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 am

Please forward the following to support choice and rights for motorcyclist;

DelDAlbo@house.virginia.gov; DelKAlexander@house.virginia.gov; DelRAnderson@house.virginia.gov; DelMBaCote@house.virginia.gov; DelDBell@house.virginia.gov; DelRBell@house.virginia.gov; DelRBrink@house.virginia.gov; DelDBulova@house.virginia.gov; DelKByron@house.virginia.gov; DelBCarr@house.virginia.gov; DelBCline@house.virginia.gov; DelMCole@house.virginia.gov; DelBComstock@house.virginia.gov; DelJCosgrove@house.virginia.gov; DelJCox@house.virginia.gov; DelKCox@house.virginia.gov; DelACrockett-Stark@house.virginia.gov; DelRDance@house.virginia.gov; DelMDudenhefer@House.virginia.gov; DelJEdmunds@house.virginia.gov; DelDEnglin@house.virginia.gov; DelMFariss@house.virginia.gov; DelPFarrell@house.virginia.gov; DelEFiller-Corn@house.virginia.gov; DelSGarrett@house.virginia.gov; DelTGilbert@house.virginia.gov; DelTGreason@house.virginia.gov; DelGHabeeb@house.virginia.gov; DelCHead@house.virginia.gov; DelGHelsel@house.virginia.gov; DelCHerring@house.virginia.gov; DelKHodges@house.virginia.gov; DelPHope@house.virginia.gov; DelAHowell@house.virginia.gov; Delwhowell@house.virginia.gov; DelTHugo@house.virginia.gov; DelSIaquinto@house.virginia.gov; DelRIngram@house.virginia.gov; DelMJames@house.virginia.gov; DelJJohnson@house.virginia.gov; DelCJones@house.virginia.gov; DelMKeam@house.virginia.gov; DelTKilgore@house.virginia.gov; DelBKnight@house.virginia.gov; DelKKory@house.virginia.gov; DelSLandes@house.virginia.gov; DelJLeMunyon@house.virginia.gov; DelLLewis@house.virginia.gov; DelSLingamfelter@house.virginia.gov; DelALopez@House.virginia.gov; DelMLoupassi@house.virginia.gov; DelDMarshall@house.virginia.gov; DelBMarshall@house.virginia.gov; DelJMassie@house.virginia.gov; DelJMay@house.virginia.gov; DelJMcClellan@house.virginia.gov; DelDMcQuinn@house.virginia.gov; DelDMerricks@house.virginia.gov; DelJMiller@house.virginia.gov; DelRMinchew@house.virginia.gov; DelJMorefield@house.virginia.gov; DelRMorris@house.virginia.gov; DelJMorrissey@house.virginia.gov; DelJOBannon@house.virginia.gov; delioquinn@house.virginia.gov; DelBOrrock@house.virginia.gov; DelCPeace@house.virginia.gov; DelKPlum@house.virginia.gov; DelBPogge@house.virginia.gov; DelCPoindexter@house.virginia.gov; DelBPurkey@house.virginia.gov; DelLPutney@house.virginia.gov; DelDRamadan@house.virginia.gov; DelMRansone@house.virginia.gov; DelRRobinson@house.virginia.gov; DelNRush@house.virginia.gov; DelTRust@house.virginia.gov; DelEScott@house.virginia.gov; DelJScott@house.virginia.gov; DelBSherwood@house.virginia.gov; DelMSickles@house.virginia.gov; DelLSpruill@house.virginia.gov; DelCStolle@house.virginia.gov; DelSSurovell@house.virginia.gov; DelBTata@house.virginia.gov; DelLTorian@house.virginia.gov; DelDToscano@house.virginia.gov; DelRTyler@house.virginia.gov; DelRVillanueva@house.virginia.gov; DelJWard@house.virginia.gov; DelOWare@house.virginia.gov; DelLWare@house.virginia.gov; DelMWatson@house.virginia.gov; DelVWatts@house.virginia.gov; DelMWebert@house.virginia.gov; DelTWilt@house.virginia.gov; DelTWright@house.virginia.gov; DelDYancey@house.virginia.gov; DelJYost@House.virginia.gov

Subj: Please Support HB97 and HB 187

Speaker and Members of the House of Delegates,

I am urging you to support these two bills they are very important to us as Motorcyclist.

HB 97, Motorcycles Riding Two Abreast. This is allowed in 48 other states either by statute or lack of statute saying otherwise. Passage of this bill would allow us as riders to be able to communicate with each other while riding to indicate such things as; we are low on fuel, need to stop, mechanical problems, etc. It would also allow is to occupy less space at traffic lights and stop signs and thus speed up the process of getting the traffic safely moving again. This bill does not say we are going to be riding two abreast all of the time, it leaves it up to the individual riders to determine how they want to ride. At the bear minimum, it does not warrant a Class 1 Misdemeanor where a convection will lead to the loss of their jobs for riders having CDL’s, Security Clearance’s for the Government, etc. Please support the passage of this bill.

HB 187, Motorcycle only Checkpoints. I am sure you have been made aware of the huge waste of tax payer money last year by Arlington County Police Dept. when they set up a Motorcycle Only Checkpoint during Rolling Thunder. Sixteen total Officers and Supervisors stopped 529 motorcycles to do “Safety Check” which netted then 11 citations. This was a total waste of time and discriminates against a person just because of what he or she chooses to ride or drive. Please support the passage of this bill.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

your name and address go here
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:54 pm

F it.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:18 pm

Here's what I sent, in my own words, to my Delegate. Might be more effective than a "blast" to all 99 members. I decided to focus on HB97, since it is up for immediate action.
---------------------
Dear Del. Hope,

I am a constituent, avid motorcyclist and [blah, blah, blah, other pertinent credentials.] Virginia is one of the two states that penalize two motorcyclists for riding abreast in a single lane. Under current law, riding two-abreast is considered "reckless driving," a serious charge carrying a hefty fine, six points, possible license suspension and up to a year in jail time.

HB97 would allow riders to communicate effectively while moving or stopped to indicate such things as: low fuel, need to stop and mechanical problems. The bill does not say motorcyclists will (or should) ride two abreast all of the time. It merely gives us, as responsible riders, more choice in determining how to ride.

I ask for your support when HB97 comes up for a vote later this week.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely yours,

Paul A. Wilson
[...address...]
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby RocketMan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:26 pm

I have to say that in all my years of riding, the need to ride up next to another rider to signal some need has been pretty much nil. I you need to stop or pull over one would hope the person you are riding with if in front will notice pretty quickly you are not still in view and pull over and wait to turn back or if the other rider is behind you they (hopefully) will notice you have pulled over (before running into you!) or that you have changed direction from your intended route and follow along till you both can pull over to discuss the situation. I do happen to think riding two abreast is probably not a good idea for most for any reason, even for short distances, but hardly qualifies as "criminal".

As for the checkpoints, an annoyance perhaps at best, but hardly qualifies as a "huge waste of funds" since I have seen no evidence it happens that often other than one cited for rolling thunder and while the number of officer may have been overkill, out of the entire budget for the year I doubt it qualifies as "huge". In forty some years I have been stopped twice for checkpoints that included all vehicles and they seemed to just be checking licenses, total of 15 seconds (if that) including waiting time, though they may have been looking for someone in particular. My point is that while someone may take issue with it, overstating the "facts" does nothing to advance ones cause; if you feel its a violation of your rights, then simply state that. And from what I read the supreme court held that targeted stops Are legal, as well as "enforcement zones" I believe, though under very limited circumstances, forget the name of the ruling but its easy enough to find.

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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby streetdoc » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:56 pm

Paul, thanks for the thoughtful and personal reply sent to your Delegate. The volume of e-mails, presence of about 40 to 50 motorcyclist yesterday in the committee meeting, and, a Delegate that would not back down is what got HB97 out of committee. Thanks for helping to push this through the full House of Delegates.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:42 pm

Update:

HB97 (allowing riding two-abreast) passed the House of Delegates, today, on a voice vote. It's on to the Senate.

HB187 (prohibit motorcycle-only checkpoints) has advanced to the House floor on a 20-1 vote in the Transportation Committee.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:21 pm

Update

HB97 (allowing two-abreast riding) has passed the House of Delegates and is on its way to the Senate

HB187 (prohibiting motorcycle-only police checkpoints) today passed by a vote of 85-10 and is also on its way to the Senate.

Sadly, the Arlington delegation (especially Bob Brink, and my delegate Patrick Hope) seem to be in the vanguard of opposing both bills. It's not too surprising, considering how Arlington PD has been in the forefront of the motorcycle checkpoint issue. I support these two bills, as one way of pushing back against heavy-handed law enforcement in the Commonwealth.

Channel 6 in Richmond aired this commentary on the riding side-by-side issue.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-will-reve ... 0092.story
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Chiba » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:07 pm

It's nice to see a bit about motorcycles on the news that isn't sensationalized in some way.

That piece also reminds me I sure wish we had a no-texting law... not that anybody would get popped for it, but still :)
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby Ted » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:25 pm

FYI - the US House Transportation Bill coming out tomorrow and being marked up Thursday has the following included:

Section 5007 - Prohibition on Funds to Check Helmet Usage or Create Checkpoints for a Motorcycle Driver or Passenger
The Secretary shall not provide a grant or otherwise make available funding to a State, Indian Tribe, county, municipality, or other local government to be used for any program to check helmet usage or create checkpoints for a motorcycle driver or passenger.

As some may remember from a thread last year I had a particular interest in these checkpoints, and a few may know, am lucky enough to have been in a position to help do something about it :)
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:56 pm

UPDATE:

Both bills have been referred to the Senate Transportation Committee. The hearing will be either on Feb. 8th or the 15th. I may attend, depending on my work load the next couple of weeks. Attendees have been asked to wear "identifiable" motorcycling gear, so we have visible strength in numbers for the senators on the dais. I hope my Aerostich Roadcrafter and Combat Lites will fit the bill. :)
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby dcgsrider » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:33 am

Yesterday's action in Richmond.

HB97 (allow two-abreast riding) was reported out of the Senate transportation committee to the full Senate, with an amendment that the existing prohibition would still apply to three-wheelers.

HB187 (prohibit motorcycle-only police checkpoints) was reported out of committee by a unanimous vote, meaning it's on the fast track to almost certain passage and becoming law.
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Re: VA- Riding 2 Abreast and MC-only checkpoint bills

Postby JimVonBaden » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:15 pm

RocketMan wrote:I have to say that in all my years of riding, the need to ride up next to another rider to signal some need has been pretty much nil. I you need to stop or pull over one would hope the person you are riding with if in front will notice pretty quickly you are not still in view and pull over and wait to turn back or if the other rider is behind you they (hopefully) will notice you have pulled over (before running into you!) or that you have changed direction from your intended route and follow along till you both can pull over to discuss the situation. I do happen to think riding two abreast is probably not a good idea for most for any reason, even for short distances, but hardly qualifies as "criminal".


RM

I tend to agree. Other than when stopped at a light or sign, I NEVER ride next to someone. There are very few riders I would trust to have the skills to maintain safe distances with me, and then there is the unexpected. There is just no good reason to do it IMHO.

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