Proposed by law changs

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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby BMWGirl » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:34 pm

The safety course thing was discussed at the February meeting in Timonium. There is the ARC (I THINK is the name) that is putting together a special safety class with special rates for BMWBMW club members. Our goal is that people sign up, take the class and then at the end of the class - everyone throws their name in the hat and we draw a name. The winner will be reimbursed their class registration by the club. So it's not a particular person, it's a "Winner".

We are trying to give back to the club. We can't give something to every single person because every single person is different. We are trying to help out members in a variety of ways. We get a lot of attendence at the Rally so we tried a band this year - that was a nice treat; We bought a GS911 because our tech days are so incredibly popular that we wanted to help out members; Some people believe in safety training, so we came up with this idea to help with training.

You can't make 450 people happy at the same time, so we're trying to touch on something different and trying to reach out to more and more members.

How does giving OUR CLUB dues to the Avon society benefit our club? Why is giving back to OUR CLUB MEMBERS a bad thing but giving to a charity is okay? I don't get it???
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby ChaseH » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:45 pm

Tina's trying to please 450 men?
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby wiredcur » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:56 pm

ChaseH wrote:Tina's trying to please 450 men?


No, 450 Members.... er... nevermind.

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Thanks for explaining the thought behind "sending a member to a safety class," Maria. I think that was/is an excellent idea and productive use of club funds.
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby JSWillis » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:30 pm

I am not advocating giving club money to a charity - any charity. I would advocate against doing so.

I think the proposal to reimburse a member for his/her cost of attending a training course violates the IRS rules prohibiting using a 501(c) sanctioned organizations funds for the benefit of a single member. It does not matter that it is random or that the person is identified after the fact. In fact. the random nature "pulling a name out of a hat" smacks of a form of gambling - akin to a form of lotto. What not simply select a member of the club and give them the money - that would be nice, would give back to the member?

A legitimate form of club sponsored safety training would be to defray the costs of a MSF course in the various states and let members attend without discrimination or preselection. Another would be to sponsor a track day - once again open to the members generally with riding instructors, etc. to teach safe riding skills.

My apologies to all for raising these points now - I should have raised them at the February meeting - I did not know this idea was going to be discussed at that meeting. I think I was in class so I would not been able to attend but at least I would have submitted electronic comments or PMed Tina for example.

What's next - reimburse people for winning rallies to promte touring? Reimburse the "winner" of a pool of names of people who bought JVB's maintenance DVD to promote maintenance?

Not only is the idea to reimburse these types of expenses in this manner a bad use of funds, it is arguably illegal (in terms of violating the IRS rules).

Steve

BMWGirl wrote:The safety course thing was discussed at the February meeting in Timonium. There is the ARC (I THINK is the name) that is putting together a special safety class with special rates for BMWBMW club members. Our goal is that people sign up, take the class and then at the end of the class - everyone throws their name in the hat and we draw a name. The winner will be reimbursed their class registration by the club. So it's not a particular person, it's a "Winner".

We are trying to give back to the club. We can't give something to every single person because every single person is different. We are trying to help out members in a variety of ways. We get a lot of attendence at the Rally so we tried a band this year - that was a nice treat; We bought a GS911 because our tech days are so incredibly popular that we wanted to help out members; Some people believe in safety training, so we came up with this idea to help with training.

You can't make 450 people happy at the same time, so we're trying to touch on something different and trying to reach out to more and more members.

How does giving OUR CLUB dues to the Avon society benefit our club? Why is giving back to OUR CLUB MEMBERS a bad thing but giving to a charity is okay? I don't get it???
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby BMWGirl » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:05 pm

JSWillis wrote:I am not advocating giving club money to a charity - any charity. I would advocate against doing so.
It does not matter that it is random or that the person is identified after the fact. In fact. the random nature "pulling a name out of a hat" smacks of a form of gambling - akin to a form of lotto. What not simply select a member of the club and give them the money - that would be nice, would give back to the member?

[/b][/color]


Steve - I really appreciate your help on this!! I'm a little confused on this idea? I can't pull a name out of the hat but I can pick a member? I'm not sure I understand the difference?

Sponsoring a track day would be pretty expensive. It might be interesting to look in too though.

I'm sending you a PM too.
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby JSWillis » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:46 pm

Tina,

i was being facetious about simply picking someone to highlight the potential problem - Club asset are being used to benefit one person (rather than compensate them for services rendered to the club) rather than the membership generally.

Steve

quote="BMWGirl"]
JSWillis wrote:I am not advocating giving club money to a charity - any charity. I would advocate against doing so.
It does not matter that it is random or that the person is identified after the fact. In fact. the random nature "pulling a name out of a hat" smacks of a form of gambling - akin to a form of lotto. What not simply select a member of the club and give them the money - that would be nice, would give back to the member?

[/b][/color]


Steve - I really appreciate your help on this!! I'm a little confused on this idea? I can't pull a name out of the hat but I can pick a member? I'm not sure I understand the difference?

Sponsoring a track day would be pretty expensive. It might be interesting to look in too though.

I'm sending you a PM too.
:mrgreen:[/quote]
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby Slider » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Works for me. Then again the club could donate to a PAC, like the AMA!
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby henwin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:04 pm

Maria V wrote:Here is the plan - you will see there is no big secret or ill intent on the part of the board.
Club sponsors a safety class. All who sign up and attend, and complete the class, are eligible for a random drawing to have the club reimburse the expense. We feel this promotes the objective of promoting safety.
Members will be advised of the incentive up front. Random drawing for reimbursement. No super select treatment, even playing field for everyone.


That's a bit different than the unexplained explanation that Tina gave. That makes things different. But how about subsidizing the entire class?
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby BMWGirl » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:23 pm

JSWillis wrote:Tina,

i was being facetious about simply picking someone to highlight the potential problem - Club asset are being used to benefit one person (rather than compensate them for services rendered to the club) rather than the membership generally.

Steve



[/b][/color]
[/quote]

oops!! #-o :lol: Thanks Steve.

Well, I think we're on the right track. Thanks for doing some research for us. I think the wheels are turning in the right direction now and that's a good thing! =D> :mrgreen:
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby Maria V » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Can we keep Steve on a retainer? :lol:
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby Chiba » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:29 pm

Maria V wrote:Can we keep Steve on a retainer? :lol:

Only if we pay for it with club funds.

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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby Aether » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:32 pm

Maria V wrote:Can we keep Steve on a retainer? :lol:


Will it cost club money to pay for his dental appliance?
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby JSWillis » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:08 pm

This is complete B/S.

Figure it out yourselves, or don't, and see if there are any consequences. There probably won't be any with the IRS - but that does not mean it is wrong.

As a final point - I have never asked for money from the Club, have declined offers of such when I was the GAC and more recently.

It's no wonder David recently resigned as the GAC.

FWIW, I provided the actual IRS audit standard to Tina that I was concerned about.


Aether wrote:
Maria V wrote:Can we keep Steve on a retainer? :lol:


Will it cost club money to pay for his dental appliance?
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Re: Proposed by law changs

Postby Chiba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:14 am

JSWillis wrote:This is complete B/S.

One of the greatest problems with the internet is that humor is often not transmitted along with the words on the screen.

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